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Author Topic: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?  (Read 14861 times)

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Offline La Kalaka

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2011, 01:23 AM »
From my POV one thing it's clear: his feelings for her make him to get a heart <3

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Offline Darlingvictoria

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2011, 11:19 AM »
From my POV one thing it's clear: his feelings for her make him to get a heart <3

I agree to your statement. I'm not really the shippy type anymore (well except when it comes to Ichiruki) so I'm looking at the whole U/O relationship a little differently. One thing is obvious, despite how people view the whole relationship, it is one sided with Ulquiorra having some sort of feeling toward Orihime. If it's love, I'm not sure of that. I can't picture Kubo writing too many shojo mangas lol.

Offline Tallus

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2011, 09:02 AM »
I think Ulquiorra found Orihime fascinating ("What an interesting human/woman" -> "What a strong woman/that woman has a strong spirit.")  Then, when IchiThing put the Cero through him and Orihime was crying for him to stop, Ulquiorra kind of...snapped?  Not like "RAEEEAGGEEE" snapped, but something clicked in his head.  Something so profound that he decided to get up and break IchiThing's mask even after saying he was beaten, and that his life no longer had meaning.  I heard it best over on BA...when Orihime (again) rushed to Ichigo, Ulquiorra looked like a kicked puppy. 

So, he turned his back to them all and contemplated his fate.  When all was said and done, and he started turning to ash (and Ichigo refused to kill him so his death would hold some sort of value), he turned back to Orihime.  He lifted his hand even after saying he didn't have the strength left to walk.  He gave her one last chance to admit if she was scared of him or not, and seemed pretty pleased when she said she wasn't.  Then, of course, her eyes start to tear up (fresh tears, mind you) and she reached back to him. 

Kaien once told Rukia, "The Heart is born when you care for someone."  I feel that this is what happened in this moment.  The two of them had a deeper connection than either of them has had with anyone else they know, and it was suddenly being ripped away from them at the same time. 

Do I think Ulquiorra loved Orihime?  For the whole 15 seconds he had between "Are you afraid of me?  Woman" and "I see, this thing in my hand is...the Heart" I feel that he very much did love her.  She was the first soul he'd ever shared a bond with that didn't shun him right away, or use him, or threaten him.  She was the sunrise that finally pierced his dark and sunless world.  The speck of hope he never knew.  She was The Heart to him.  She was everything he ever wanted and never had.

Did Orihime love him back?  I think yes.  Not in the romantic sense, but the kind of love you share with someone you're good friends with.  She did reach out to him once, before realizing he would turn to dust, knowing full well that if he hadn't, she would have been holding his hand (something she has never shared with anyone else that was conscious and willing), and then reached a second time after he did start to fall apart, like she didn't want him to go.  She cried for him.  She mourned enough that even Ichigo noticed her feelings for once...and it was a powerful enough moment that Kubo thought it was important for Ichigo to reflect on some 20 chapters after the fact.  However, in a sense, I think that Orihime has demonized the memory she had of Ulquiorra because her sudden feelings for him (however weak or strong) were enough to contradict her '5 lifetimes' statement from 24 hours earlier.  Even if it hasn't been addressed in any fashion in canon yet, I think that her experience on the dome has somehow become the reason why she's overcompensating with her obsession over Ichigo in the current arc.  I've seen many folks say they think she's hiding something...I think this is it.  I think, if Ulquiorra had lived, Orihime would have fallen for him (especially since he realized what the Heart was,) and I firmly believe that it's possible she feels that this fact is/was a threat to her love of Ichigo, and now, she has to make up for it by being extra crazy.

I honest-to-God hope Ulquiorra returns to the story...if for no other reason but to help Orihime grow and be awesome again.  If Kubo never has them get together...that's fine...I can still dream of their potential...but just physically having him there would do Orihime a world of good.  He has a calming effect on her, much like how Rukia calms Ichigo.

Offline girl_seeks_adventure

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2011, 03:04 PM »
I think Ulquiorra found Orihime fascinating ("What an interesting human/woman" -> "What a strong woman/that woman has a strong spirit.")  Then, when IchiThing put the Cero through him and Orihime was crying for him to stop, Ulquiorra kind of...snapped?  Not like "RAEEEAGGEEE" snapped, but something clicked in his head.  Something so profound that he decided to get up and break IchiThing's mask even after saying he was beaten, and that his life no longer had meaning.  I heard it best over on BA...when Orihime (again) rushed to Ichigo, Ulquiorra looked like a kicked puppy. 

So, he turned his back to them all and contemplated his fate.  When all was said and done, and he started turning to ash (and Ichigo refused to kill him so his death would hold some sort of value), he turned back to Orihime.  He lifted his hand even after saying he didn't have the strength left to walk.  He gave her one last chance to admit if she was scared of him or not, and seemed pretty pleased when she said she wasn't.  Then, of course, her eyes start to tear up (fresh tears, mind you) and she reached back to him. 

Kaien once told Rukia, "The Heart is born when you care for someone."  I feel that this is what happened in this moment.  The two of them had a deeper connection than either of them has had with anyone else they know, and it was suddenly being ripped away from them at the same time. 

Do I think Ulquiorra loved Orihime?  For the whole 15 seconds he had between "Are you afraid of me?  Woman" and "I see, this thing in my hand is...the Heart" I feel that he very much did love her.  She was the first soul he'd ever shared a bond with that didn't shun him right away, or use him, or threaten him.  She was the sunrise that finally pierced his dark and sunless world.  The speck of hope he never knew.  She was The Heart to him.  She was everything he ever wanted and never had.

Did Orihime love him back?  I think yes.  Not in the romantic sense, but the kind of love you share with someone you're good friends with.  She did reach out to him once, before realizing he would turn to dust, knowing full well that if he hadn't, she would have been holding his hand (something she has never shared with anyone else that was conscious and willing), and then reached a second time after he did start to fall apart, like she didn't want him to go.  She cried for him.  She mourned enough that even Ichigo noticed her feelings for once...and it was a powerful enough moment that Kubo thought it was important for Ichigo to reflect on some 20 chapters after the fact.  However, in a sense, I think that Orihime has demonized the memory she had of Ulquiorra because her sudden feelings for him (however weak or strong) were enough to contradict her '5 lifetimes' statement from 24 hours earlier.  Even if it hasn't been addressed in any fashion in canon yet, I think that her experience on the dome has somehow become the reason why she's overcompensating with her obsession over Ichigo in the current arc.  I've seen many folks say they think she's hiding something...I think this is it.  I think, if Ulquiorra had lived, Orihime would have fallen for him (especially since he realized what the Heart was,) and I firmly believe that it's possible she feels that this fact is/was a threat to her love of Ichigo, and now, she has to make up for it by being extra crazy.

I honest-to-God hope Ulquiorra returns to the story...if for no other reason but to help Orihime grow and be awesome again.  If Kubo never has them get together...that's fine...I can still dream of their potential...but just physically having him there would do Orihime a world of good.  He has a calming effect on her, much like how Rukia calms Ichigo.

Beautifully, fantastically put. I love the idea that she's overcompensating, and I think you've probably hit it. I think the only thing I disagree with is your last paragraph. I hope Ulquiorra (I really need to learn how to spell that properly) doesn't return, mostly because I doubt he'd have much significance besides being a prop for Orihime. I don't think she needs that. And I think the beauty of that last scene would be ruined if he came back.
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Offline Tallus

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 07:45 PM »
I dunno.  I feel that, if done correctly, Ulquiorra's return could be just as powerful as when Rukia came back (and Farewell Swords pretty much made everyone except IchiHime shippers cry, and I don't think that knowing she came back did anything to change how powerful her goodbye was.)  Unlike other characters who have returned and fought alongside Ichigo, I think Ulquiorra would be more content to just 'watch' things, and only step in if Orihime herself asks him to (or herself is threatened.)  He did say he found everyone "interesting," but that doesn't exactly mean he wants to be their friend or ally.  He just doesn't have any particular reason to slaughter them anymore (dying effectively releases him from bondage to Aizen.)

Ulquiorra had, according to his personality (the result of which was explained in Unmasked), always sought out companionship and happiness.  When he thought it became impossible, he lashed out...killed those who rejected him and buried his emotions so deeply into his soul that he seemingly forgot what they were.  When he finally did find happiness, and a companion, both were torn away from him.  It was the ultimate "You don't know what you have until you've lost it" moment for me and I feel like it did him (as well as Orihime) a great disservice.  The both of them deserve to be happy, and in the way that Kubo depicted it, I feel like they could both find that happiness within one another.  Ulquiorra did, after all, end up being the heart Orihime connected to, as the rain connects eternally separated earth and sky XD  And goddamnit I'm tired of watching Orihime suffer for not being Ichigo's object d'drool.  She deserves to cry for happiness instead of sadness/worry for once.  I feel like Ulquiorra is the only person in the story (thus far) to have shown her any sort of reciprocation for her feelings.  (Not to take this onto a tangent, but I don't see Ishida having any sort of romantic interest in Orihime.  He's got White Knight syndrom, and has a small soft-spot for the girl, but after 450+ chapters where Ishida's been around, he's never once shown any sign of jealousy or upset over Orihime liking Ichigo and not him.  His pov was also neglected when Orihime reached for Ulquiorra.  If Ishida really does have a thing for her, Kubo's done a pretty underwhelming job portraying it...so, at this point, I feel confident in saying Ulquiorra is the only one that's ever cared for Orihime as strongly as to call it 'love.')

Offline debbiechan

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2011, 11:30 PM »
Tallus, I agree completely with your assessment that Ulquiorra did love Orihime for that moment he reached for her--fascination is good an adjective as any to describe his feelings until that point but once he gets a heart and pulls that amazing hand-reach stunt, the intensity of those emotions can't really be named with anything less than the word love, I think, even if many can't use the word. It's really semantics--but what else do you call the strength of those feelings.

I also agree with your assessment of Orihime's venturing to answer with that gesture of intimacy with what are strong feelings but given that hers were not born in the same sort of fascination as Ulquiorra's they do seem to have more of a strong friendship bond as you say--although, damn, yes, as you mentioned, she's never held another guy's hand (while he's awake) and the whole handreach moment had romantic overtones.

Going much further, of course, is to speculate off-topic and beyond the scope of the question of this thread. If you want to start a particular shipping thread for UlquiHime, you're free to do so. (ETA: CORRECTION: There is supposed to be only ONE thread about Orihime on this board and you know the one (see RULES). Other pairings and character questions are allowed but Ulquiorra and Orihime as a pairing discussions should go in the Orihime character development thread here: http://216.67.224.201/~deathber/index.php?topic=19.msg97#msg97 Sorry for the confusion)

The both of them deserve to be happy, and in the way that Kubo depicted it, I feel like they could both find that happiness within one another.

The "they deserve to be happy" argument isn't a really strong one in shipping or in story-telling. Characters can find happiness independent of being in a couple. Renji deserves happiness in a relationship; so does Ishida--both characters to me and others in fandom seem to be content to step aside for reasons having to do with their own personalities.

You define Ulquiorra as the only character in love with Orihime--yes, this is a little OT and is perhaps addressed better in a separate thread someone may make later for comparisons.

Quote
   (Not to take this onto a tangent, but I don't see Ishida having any sort of romantic interest in Orihime.  He's got White Knight syndrom, and has a small soft-spot for the girl, but after 450+ chapters where Ishida's been around, he's never once shown any sign of jealousy or upset over Orihime liking Ichigo and not him.  His pov was also neglected when Orihime reached for Ulquiorra.  If Ishida really does have a thing for her, Kubo's done a pretty underwhelming job portraying it...so, at this point, I feel confident in saying Ulquiorra is the only one that's ever cared for Orihime as strongly as to call it 'love.')

Ulquiorra feels strongly because that's his personality--there are many ways to show love. Whether or not what Ishida feels for Orihime is romantic love is arguable, but his feelings were defined in canon in the first databook as rising from his heart--when Ichigo fought Byakuya. Ishida showed a great deal of passion, grimacing and wishing that Ichigo would win because losing would hurt Orihime. Ishida's personality is different from Ulquiorra's and his love for Orihime is defintely friendship-based, much more self-less, and he's not the jealous, impulsive type. Ulquiorra isn't human and Kubo made a point of dancing with Ulquiorra's newfound humanity so obviously Ulquiorra's feelings would be raw, passionate, disturbing to himself--jealousy seems apt for him.

But as I said, this sort of thing doesn't really address the original question of this thread. May I suggest a "What may happen if Ulquiorra returns?" thread. There's been a lot of speculation, shippy and otherwise, and that is a broad enough topic to keep a lot of forum members busy.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 08:54 AM by debbiechan »
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Offline Tallus

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2011, 07:26 AM »
It's a little hard to avoid the shippiness in a thread titled "Does Ulquiorra love Orihime?" Lol

In either case...I only regard the Ulquiorra/Orihime angle in terms of 'finding happiness in each other' because both characters seem to exist within the story as entities who 'live' for love, companionship, bonds, the Heart, etc.  If Orihime could find personal happiness solely in pastries then I wouldn't be worried about her anymore, since she works in a bakery.  Likewise with Ulquiorra...he found his happiness, but it was ripped right out of his hands at the very moment it became available to him, and I found that cruelly unfair (since Kubo had made it clear by this point that Orihime had the power to restore something from nothing, and yet she did squat to help him, even after saving the Lolis.  I remember reading an interview with Morita and Ishida's VA, and how they were making fun of Orihime for not doing anything to help ANYONE while up on the dome.)  I think the only series I've ever followed where something was worse, was in Berserk when Griffith sacrificed the Band of the Hawk for his own selfish ambitions.  The only difference here is that I have no one in particular to 'blame' because Ichigo wasn't in control of himself while he was handing Ulquiorra his ass (and even Hichigo seemed a bit blameless since this was raw Hollow coming through, not the "EHEHEHEHE I FIGHT CUZ IT'S FUN" version.)

I mean, Ulquiorra's whole character is based around Nihility...Emptiness...and then we found out why with his backstory in Unmasked.  He admitted in his dream that he sought out companions, and specifically mentioned that he had none after starting to wander the desert.  It was pretty poetic how the panels and inner dialogue lined up towards the end, where Ulquiorra started to state, "Happiness.  If such a thing exists, it would have to be something that resembles that place, and the endless void I felt while within it.  There is nothing.  Not in you.  Not in me." while, at the same time, suddenly opening his eyes to find Orihime looking down on him.  He says Nothingness = Happiness, and then says specifically that there is nothing in both himself and Orihime...perhaps he's already gotten comfortable enough around her to find some kind of real happiness because of her as early as this? 

His reaction to Orihime calling him "Ulquiorra-kun" was also greatly muted compared to Ichigo's own reference later on (I assume Ulquiorra fell asleep on Orihime's couch during the period of time between telling her to eat, and ultimately leaving to find Ichigo to fight him the first time.)  Orihime basically treats him like a human, and Ulquiorra is just like "Ugh don't do that" and then Ichigo states outright "Maybe it's because I'm more like a Hollow, or maybe it's because you're more like a human?" and Ulquiorra shatters the floor.  Maybe it's just that Ichigo really gets on Ulquiorra's nerves, but I think he would've reacted the same way to pretty much everyone except Orihime (and probably Aizen, though I doubt he'd ever make such a comparison.)

I won't get too far into Orihime's POV in this thread since the question was Ulqui -> Hime...and we honestly don't know wtf Orihime was thinking still.  I really wish someone on Kubo's staff would have confirmed what she thought of Ulquiorra so we could get a line for her to him on that Relationships Chart at Harajuku.  The absence of any line of ANY sort drives me mad with curiosity.

In either case...Ulquiorra would find his happiness in being with Orihime.  I firmly believe this.  Likewise, I think it would break his fragile little heart if she turned him away because of her obsession over Ichigo.  But...part of me believes that Orihime wouldn't be able to turn him away if he returned.  It would cause her a great deal of inner turmoil if he came back before she resolved those feelings she has for Ichigo, but I'm crossing my fingers that Kubo might use Ulquiorra as a catalyst for Orihime's 'coming of age'...if he ever has it happen...  (But that, is another story... /que Conan the Barbarian closing music/)

Offline debbiechan

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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2011, 07:51 AM »
I really wish someone on Kubo's staff would have confirmed what she thought of Ulquiorra so we could get a line for her to him on that Relationships Chart at Harajuku.  The absence of any line of ANY sort drives me mad with curiosity.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Scratch that, let Kubo give us more manga Orihime's thoughts on Ulquiorra. The chart only confirmed what we already knew about Ulquiorra, but that chart was one of the wankiest things to happen in fandom ever, was non-canon, was touted to be this or that ultimate truth, was the source of so much misinterpretation and I dread the sort of fandom hysteria another version of it would cause. The absence of Orihime's thoughts on Ulquiorra themselves right now are crazy-making and a chart with any sort of line would be presumptious, methinks.

As to the happiness angle, Kubo did indeed make it a telling issue in the doujin chapter. Ulquiorra found happiness in Orihime, plainly. HE DID. But happiness itself =/= couplehood love.  Orihime does seem to be tied up in idealistic notions of what love is but before finding what true love is, it seems to me she has to find herself--no, not finding love in cupcakes or anything else. Self-identity is essential to anyone, be it me, you, Orihime OR Ulquiorra with his fledgling new heart before one can love securely. The sort of love (if you and I are secure to call it that) from Ulquiorra before was passionate, jealous, intense. WHEN  (I'm not saying if because I'm confident he will  ;)) I don't expect him to launch into a love story with Orihime. I expect a Kubo-paced story about identity behind some shounen fighting. Any romance will be lagniappe.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 08:25 AM by debbiechan »
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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2011, 03:16 PM »
As much of an UO shipper I am, I don't believe it was love. I choose option 2 for my choice. Not even option one.

My opinion was that what he felt for her was, first, fascination, then finally longing. If the 40th volume poem is anything to go by, I think he found something in her that he couldn't bring himself to ignore or let go. I think at first he wanted to know more about human emotions and such, why they were so worth it when he himself was hurt long ago as we see in Unmasked. But really, I think towards the end, what he wanted, whether he knew it or it was subconciously, was to be the focus and object of Orihime's emotions.

I mean, I'm not saying he was thinking, "Love me, woman!" But looking at his expression as Orihime ran to Ichigo on the dome, all I can really think is longing. Whatever plan he had backfired, and in the end Orihime ended up the same as before. Perhaps it wasn't love, but something more selfish, an instinctual desire to have and experience more of what he had seen her give to her friends.

I believe that he was taken aback by her dedication and love for her friends, and through becoming fascinated with her, he saw she was something different and something so contradictory to his companions in Unmasked. Once he felt like that, I think it escalated into longing to be the object of those feelings. And not just feelings from anyone, but her herself. She was the very opposite of his companions from Unmasked. As Unmasked also tells us, she was Ulquiorra closest definition of happiness. It wasn't just anyone's feelings he wanted, but Orihime's.

Then at the point of the handreach, I think he wanted confirmation that it was possible, that he was worthy of being the object of those emotions. And through her returned gesture, he realized that he very well could be.

Did I make any sense? I feel like I rambled.  :-[
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Re: Does Ulquiorra love Orihime? If so, when did he start?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2011, 01:12 PM »
With Ulquihime I feel it was almost -key word here- almost love and just when Ulquiora was beginning to understand it and Orihime's heart began to feel feel he died. I feel that with these two it is all about tragedy, how they cannot be together and how Ulquiora yearns for a heart, he wants to understand why Orihime feels all the emotions she feels. Where they come from and how in the world can something that he cannot see or touch affect humans so strongly.
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